and these people got convicted and ramsey clark, if former u.s. attorney general, was speaking out on their behalf. we have to give voice to, not only the victims, because this doesn't increase our national security. the fact that most people in pakistan see the u.s. as the enemy, it not what most people in the united states understand. they're not supposed to be an enemy. because of the number of drone attacks and a half been going on there, i hope that this john brennan nomination will open up a full discussion about torture and drone wars and what the u.s. is doing. that's what would be productive. >> what is that not going to happen, eli? >> the policy of untiling terrorists widely popular and not just popular from a kind of -- >> it's not terrorists we're talking about the vast majority of the people who were killed are innocent civilians. >> whatever you want to say about the drone program, and i would agree that in all of these calls for more transparency and less secrecy i'm with the left on this. but i would make it very, very clear that